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-   -   UK Actuarial profession (IFOA) found guilty of Anti British Racism (http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=340657)

actuaryleaks101 05-22-2019 12:45 PM

UK Actuarial profession (IFOA) found guilty of Anti British Racism
 
2 Attachment(s)
For those interested. Here is the proof.
Not only are they guilty. They instructed, caused, induced and or aided the Indian IAI to discriminate against British nationals.


https://imgur.com/a/KoSLKRP
https://imgur.com/a/P8RDUUh



:party::guitar::toast::viola:

The_Polymath 05-22-2019 02:13 PM

Some backstory would be nice.

Kenny 05-22-2019 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Polymath (Post 9629808)
Some backstory would be nice.

LOL communication isn't this poster's strong suit.

tommie frazier 05-22-2019 02:19 PM

would it though?

actuaryleaks101 05-22-2019 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Polymath (Post 9629808)
Some backstory would be nice.

Need to get permission to put up the rest of it. As soon as I do, I will post it.

campbell 05-22-2019 03:49 PM

prior threads:

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=333316

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=332997

Kalium 05-25-2019 08:54 AM

The Employment Tribunal decision in this case is a public document here.

Not sure if I have understood all the nuances, but it appears to come down to:
- IFOA offers its exams twice a year
- IAI offers its own similar exams twice a year, timed around a month after the IFOA exams, and using the IFOA syllabus
- IFOA gives exam credit for its students passing either the IFOA exams or the IAI equivalent
- Students from India are permitted to join the IFOA, but UK students are not permitted to join the IAI, with the tribunal accepting an argument that the IFOA either had some influence over, if at least did not object to, the latter. (Its education provider ActEd made/makes material available to IAI students at considerably reduced rates, and did/does not want UK students joining IAI to get the benefit of those rates).

By giving IFOA exam credit for the IAI exams to Indian students who are members of both IFOA and IAI, IFOA effectively gives them 4 opportunities a year to pass an IFOA exam, compared to only 2 opportunities for UK students. Under UK law it thus discrimates against UK students on the grounds of race (in this context, nationality).

The tribunal rejected an oddly worded claim around mutual recognition and some countries having "easier" routes to qualification.

It will set remedies at a further hearing on 17 June.

:popcorn:

The_Polymath 05-25-2019 09:32 AM

This is quite different from the personal discrimination the respondent was claiming.

This is essentially a structural problem, which runs afoul of the Equality Act due to being discriminated against based on nationality based on the UK - India "agreement", and their reduced rates. Not surprised the tribunal ruled in his favour here.

Having said that, the mutual recognition path with other Actuarial socities is not the same issue. It should be made a bit tougher (no doubt about it), but that is not discrimination. It is more a professional body issue (so political).

actuaryleaks101 05-25-2019 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Polymath (Post 9632201)
This is quite different from the personal discrimination the respondent was claiming.

This is essentially a structural problem, which runs afoul of the Equality Act due to being discriminated against based on nationality based on the UK - India "agreement", and their reduced rates. Not surprised the tribunal ruled in his favour here.

Having said that, the mutual recognition path with other Actuarial socities is not the same issue. It should be made a bit tougher (no doubt about it), but that is not discrimination. It is more a professional body issue (so political).

"It should be made a bit tougher (no doubt about it), but that is not discrimination. It is more a professional body issue (so political)."

To the best of my knowledge, if the same standard is not applied, it is direct discrimination. There is a document I will try and dig out. It is a mapping document. It highlights how the qualifications around the world map against others. The one thing I have been told is that Greece doesn't have an economics exam. I need to verify this however. It is worth noting that the IFOA did wit hold significant amounts of information from the court. Moreover, Dr Watkins did not mention anything in his witness statement about the AAE.

The_Polymath 05-25-2019 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actuaryleaks101 (Post 9632252)
"It should be made a bit tougher (no doubt about it), but that is not discrimination. It is more a professional body issue (so political)."

To the best of my knowledge, if the same standard is not applied, it is direct discrimination. There is a document I will try and dig out. It is a mapping document. It highlights how the qualifications around the world map against others. The one thing I have been told is that Greece doesn't have an economics exam. I need to verify this however. It is worth noting that the IFOA did wit hold significant amounts of information from the court. Moreover, Dr Watkins did not mention anything in his witness statement about the AAE.

It would be impossible to have the same standard because local insurance regulations would be different for each region.

There is no SA2 exam in France and Germany for example. They have their own version.

This doesn't imply discrimination if you have MR. Also, the reason for MR was to increase the portability of professional designations. The old system was a nightmare. You essentially had to re-do exams in your new country even if you were qualified in your previous country. The best way around this problem is to increase the length of the work experience sign off needed in your new country to 2 years. If you can demonstrate to a UK Fellow that you can do the job for 2 years, then that is more than sufficient in my view.


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