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  #21  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:01 PM
Falafel Falafel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
When it starts producing competent actuaries, then I assume that companies will begin to consider it.

No need to consider it before that point.
I have to believe that actuarial competence comes ~90% from actual work experience, and ~10% from exams.

If the SOA copied the CAS's syllabus word for word and text for text, wouldn't an FSA-GI and FCAS be equivalent in education? I know that the FSA-GI isn't exactly like the FCAS syllabus, but if it's the same almost everywhere then what's the big difference?
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:06 PM
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bdschobel bdschobel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel View Post
I have to believe that actuarial competence comes ~90% from actual work experience, and ~10% from exams.

If the SOA copied the CAS's syllabus word for word and text for text, wouldn't an FSA-GI and FCAS be equivalent in education? I know that the FSA-GI isn't exactly like the FCAS syllabus, but if it's the same almost everywhere then what's the big difference?
Oh, come on! Passing percentage could be very different. If CAS passes 30% and SOA passes 60%, will the resulting Fellows be of comparable quality?

Bruce
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  #23  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel View Post
I have to believe that actuarial competence comes ~90% from actual work experience, and ~10% from exams.

If the SOA copied the CAS's syllabus word for word and text for text, wouldn't an FSA-GI and FCAS be equivalent in education? I know that the FSA-GI isn't exactly like the FCAS syllabus, but if it's the same almost everywhere then what's the big difference?
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
If they know what FCAS means and like it, why take a chance on SOA-GI? Most employers are [not] going to review the material carefully; that would be a huge amount of work. No employers are going to take the exams to see how rigorous they are. Even if an employer reviewed the material carefully and could say "I would be glad to hire someone who knew all this", how does the employer know how much of it the SOA would require in order to pass?

After there are a significant number of FSA-GI's, and employers can see what those people can do, maybe they will more readily hire them.
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  #24  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:07 PM
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I will leave these answers to the smarter people commenting here that already have SOA credentials
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Whiskey "on tap" - 12/31/15
Spoiler:

Bourbon(16)
Pappy Van Winkle-Family Reserve 15yr & lot "B" 12yr
Baker's 7yr
Blanton's
Knob Creek - 9yr
Basil Hayden
Maker's Mark - 46 & Cask Strength
Woodford Reserve
Jack Daniel's-Gentleman Jack, Single Barrel & Old #7
Four Roses Small Batch
Noah's Mill
Kirkland Bourbon - 7yr

Rye(6)
Angle Envy's - Finished Rye
Ravenswood Rye
Bulleit
High West - Double Rye
Whistle Pig - 10 yr
Old Overholt

Scotch(4)
Glenfiddich - The Distiller's Edition
Tomatin 12yr
The Dimple Pinch - 15 yr
Dewar's White Label

Irish(6)

Middleton Very Rare
Redbreast 12yr
Bushmill - Single Malt 16 yr
Connemarai
Jameson - Caskmates Stout and Regular
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  #25  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
All current FSA-GIs got the designation for free because they already had an FCAS and simply wrote a letter (and a dues check). That's 20+ people.

The first Fellowship exam in SOA's GI track was given last November. Eleven people took it, and five passed. It will be a very long time, many years, before employers will have seen enough FSA-GIs to properly evaluate them in comparison to FCASs. In the meantime, careful employers are hiring the only actuaries who they know are competent.

Bruce
But no one will take the exams if employers don't support it or consider candidates for positions.

Chicken-egg problem here.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:10 PM
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The exams serve as a barrier to entry more than anything. Once you have passed a series of exams I am pretty confident the person could pass almost any other series of exams on related material.

I agree with the post that 90% of competence comes from experience and not the exams.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dismal Science View Post
But no one will take the exams if employers don't support it or consider candidates for positions.

Chicken-egg problem here.
Well duh. There is not a single reason at all for a P&C employer to support the FSA-GI exams. There is only risk.

Good thing it won't matter in North America, as the FSA-GI was created for the international market anyways.
__________________
Whiskey "on tap" - 12/31/15
Spoiler:

Bourbon(16)
Pappy Van Winkle-Family Reserve 15yr & lot "B" 12yr
Baker's 7yr
Blanton's
Knob Creek - 9yr
Basil Hayden
Maker's Mark - 46 & Cask Strength
Woodford Reserve
Jack Daniel's-Gentleman Jack, Single Barrel & Old #7
Four Roses Small Batch
Noah's Mill
Kirkland Bourbon - 7yr

Rye(6)
Angle Envy's - Finished Rye
Ravenswood Rye
Bulleit
High West - Double Rye
Whistle Pig - 10 yr
Old Overholt

Scotch(4)
Glenfiddich - The Distiller's Edition
Tomatin 12yr
The Dimple Pinch - 15 yr
Dewar's White Label

Irish(6)

Middleton Very Rare
Redbreast 12yr
Bushmill - Single Malt 16 yr
Connemarai
Jameson - Caskmates Stout and Regular
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:10 PM
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bdschobel bdschobel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dismal Science View Post
But no one will take the exams if employers don't support it or consider candidates for positions. Chicken-egg problem here.
Not my problem. SOA should have thought about that before doing something so stupid.

Bruce
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:12 PM
Falafel Falafel is offline
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Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
.
Missed that, makes sense.

On the other hand, I don't understand why people think the FSA-GI somehow gives them more flexibility. It would allow you to complete of the SOA-only stuff which would carry over if you switched out of P&C, but if you work in P&C for X years and take FSA-GI exams, then you might as well be an FCAS (edit: from an education perspective). No employer is going to look at that experience and say "Well, his training is all in P&C, but he's an FSA so I should hire him for this Life position".
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2014, 01:13 PM
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Gandalf Gandalf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dismal Science View Post
But no one will take the exams if employers don't support it or consider candidates for positions.

Chicken-egg problem here.
Chicken-egg problem for the SOA and for FSA-GI's. Not a problem for employers.
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