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  #4751  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by exponentc View Post
Maybe HIPAA can be temporarily suspended for now so government can track those infected?
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Originally Posted by SamTheEagle View Post
I've had that same thought.
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Originally Posted by Arthur Itas View Post


Or at least exempt COVID tracking from HIPPA
Are we even sure that HIPAA has to be suspended? I feel like we could impose South Korea’s self-tracking requirements for people that test positive for tracing purposes so long as we weren’t reporting out at the level of detail that they do.

The bigger problem (ignoring lack of testing) to me is that it appears we don’t have the proper systems architecture in place to implement this.
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  #4752  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:45 AM
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Remember how the CDC, US Surgeon General, and other so-called experts told the public not to wear masks? Well, that is going to change eventually. Keep this in mind when you are tempted to mindlessly accept the dictates of these so-called experts. They often have ulterior motives and are often plain wrong. Act accordingly.

Quote:
Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing
From CNN Health’s Elizabeth Cohen

A prestigious scientific panel told the White House last night that research shows coronavirus can be spread not just by sneezes or coughs, but also just by talking, or possibly even just breathing.

"While the current [coronavirus] specific research is limited, the results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing," according to the letter, written by Dr. Harvey Fineberg, chairman of the National Academy of Sciences Standing Committee on Emerging Infectious Diseases and 21st Century Health Threats.
He said his letter was sent in response to a query from Kelvin Droegemeier with the Office of Science and Technology Policy at the White House.

"This letter responds to your question concerning the possibility that [coronavirus] could be spread by conversation, in addition to sneeze/cough-induced droplets," the letter states. "Currently available research supports the possibility that [coronavirus] could be spread via bioaerosols generated directly by patients' exhalation," it continues.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the virus spreads from person to person when people are within about six feet of each other. It spreads "through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes."

Fineberg told CNN this is true — but that research shows that aerosolized droplets produced by talking or possibly even by just breathing can also spread the virus.

Fineberg said it's possible that aerosolized coronavirus droplets can hang in the air and potentially infect someone who walks by later. How long coronavirus lingers in the air depends on several factors, including how much virus an infected individual puts out when breathing or talking, and also on the amount of circulation in the air, he said.

He added, however, that coronavirus is not as infectious as measles or tuberculosis.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...5a51281b593c4c
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  #4753  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:57 AM
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Maphisto's Sidekick Maphisto's Sidekick is offline
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Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
Nothing in the pics show evidence of whether the "door welding" is closing off condemned buildings in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or anywhere in China.
I have been looking, but unable to find, an article I read last night, written by an American expat teaching an AP class at an international school outside Shanghai, describing her experience of being quarantined in China, and life with the lockdowns eased.

She reported that the quarantine was enforced by a neighborhood committee of the Communist Party. They'd bring her groceries every few days, coordinate having someone stop by every so often to take her temperature and document the results...and in between those events, they simply taped a piece of paper to her door. If the paper/tape were torn, they'd know that quarantine had been broken.

That feels plausible. From what I have heard about how the party can work on a hyperlocal basis, I can believe instances of doors being welded shut...but I'd expect that to be the exception, rather than the norm (or perhaps a fallback measure for when the paper trick didn't work).
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  #4754  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:01 PM
Actuary321 Actuary321 is offline
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I would be so freaking terrified if I were pregnant right now.
2 of my daughters are expecting. One due mid-June the other at the end of Sept.
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  #4755  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:05 PM
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Remember how the CDC, US Surgeon General, and other so-called experts told the public not to wear masks? Well, that is going to change eventually. Keep this in mind when you are tempted to mindlessly accept the dictates of these so-called experts. They often have ulterior motives and are often plain wrong. Act accordingly.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...5a51281b593c4c
These “so-called experts” have been clear that masks slow the spread, but the lack of PPE for medical workers meant individuals outside of the medical field buying up all the masks was bad for our overall response. Your framework here is extremely incorrect to the point of being a blatant lie because of this exculpatory evidence.

So, please trust experts and not conspiracies.
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  #4756  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:09 PM
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https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wi...udies-69920021

Quote:
More evidence indicates healthy people can spread virus
More evidence is emerging that coronavirus infections are being spread by people who have no clear symptoms. The findings complicate efforts to gain control of the pandemic

Spoiler:
NEW YORK -- Scientists offered more evidence Wednesday that the coronavirus is spread by seemingly healthy people who show no clear symptoms, and the federal government issued new guidance warning that anyone exposed to the disease can be considered a carrier.

A study by researchers in Singapore became the latest to estimate that somewhere around 10% of new infections may be sparked by people who carry the virus but have not yet suffered its flu-like symptoms.

In response to that study and others, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention changed how it defined the risk of infection for Americans. The agency's new guidance targeted people who have no symptoms but were exposed to others with known or suspected infections. It essentially says that anyone may be a carrier, whether that person has symptoms or not.

The findings complicate efforts to gain control of the pandemic and reinforce the importance of social distancing and other measures designed to stop the spread, experts said.

“You have to really be proactive about reducing contacts between people who seem perfectly healthy,” said Lauren Ancel Meyers, a University of Texas at Austin researcher who has studied coronavirus transmission in different countries.

The newest research was published online by the CDC. It focused on 243 cases of coronavirus reported in Singapore from mid-January through mid-March, including 157 infections among people who had not traveled recently. Scientists found that so-called pre-symptomatic people triggered infections in seven different clusters of disease, accounting for about 6% of the locally acquired cases.

One of those infections was particularly striking. A 52-year-old woman's infection was linked to her sitting in a seat at a church that had been occupied earlier in the day by two tourists who showed no symptoms but later fell ill, investigators said after they reviewed closed-circuit camera recordings of church services.

An earlier study that focused on China, where the virus was first identified, suggested that more than 10% of transmissions were from people who were infected but did not yet feel sick.

The seemingly healthy people who can transmit the virus are believed to fall into three categories: pre-symptomatic, who do not have symptoms when they spread but develop illness a couple of days later; asymptomatic, who never develop symptoms; and post-symptomatic, who get sick and recover but remain contagious. The Singapore and China studies focused on pre-symptomatic infections.

It remains unclear how many new infections are caused by each type of potential spreader, said Meyers, who was not involved in the Singapore study but was part of the earlier one focused on China.

CDC officials say they have been researching asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic infections, but the studies are not complete.

In an interview Tuesday with a radio station in Atlanta, CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield cited an estimate that 25% of infected people may be asymptomatic. It was not clear what that estimate was based on, or if it included people who were pre-symptomatic or post-symptomatic. The AP requested more information from the CDC, but the agency did not provide those details.

Redfield's comment was in response to a question about whether the agency is going to recommend that people who seem healthy wear masks or face coverings when they go out. He said the agency is reviewing its guidance, looking at research in Singapore, China and other places in making that decision.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom this week said he planned to announce new state guidelines on wearing masks.

Wearing scarves or bandanas over noses and mouths is “not necessarily going to protect you, but if you are carrying the disease, it may reduce the amount you transmit,” said Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington evolutionary biologist who studies emerging infectious diseases.

In the initial months of the pandemic, health officials based their response on the belief that most of the spread came from people who were sneezing or coughing droplets that contained the virus.

Another kind of coronavirus caused the deadly severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, which was first identified in Asia in 2003 and caused a frightening but relatively short-lived international outbreak that never spread as widely as the new virus.

Although some asymptomatic infections were discovered, none were found to have spread the disease. Because symptomatic people were the spreaders, health officials could focus on them to see an outbreak happening and could better isolate infected people and stop the spread.

“It was much, much easier” to contain, Bergstrom said. With the new coronavirus, “we clearly have asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission,” he added.




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  #4757  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:10 PM
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I would be so freaking terrified if I were pregnant right now.
Well, you are a higher risk than a 20-something. Where you live may also play a role in your feelings.
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2 of my daughters are expecting. One due mid-June the other at the end of Sept.
Congrats!
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  #4758  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:11 PM
ian grey ian grey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maphisto's Sidekick View Post
I have been looking, but unable to find, an article I read last night, written by an American expat teaching an AP class at an international school outside Shanghai, describing her experience of being quarantined in China, and life with the lockdowns eased.

She reported that the quarantine was enforced by a neighborhood committee of the Communist Party. They'd bring her groceries every few days, coordinate having someone stop by every so often to take her temperature and document the results...and in between those events, they simply taped a piece of paper to her door. If the paper/tape were torn, they'd know that quarantine had been broken.

That feels plausible. From what I have heard about how the party can work on a hyperlocal basis, I can believe instances of doors being welded shut...but I'd expect that to be the exception, rather than the norm (or perhaps a fallback measure for when the paper trick didn't work).
Sounds like this one: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/opini...ion/index.html
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  #4759  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:14 PM
3rookie 3rookie is offline
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Originally Posted by ditkaworshipper View Post
These “so-called experts” have been clear that masks slow the spread, but the lack of PPE for medical workers meant individuals outside of the medical field buying up all the masks was bad for our overall response. Your framework here is extremely incorrect to the point of being a blatant lie because of this exculpatory evidence.

So, please trust experts and not conspiracies.
I agree. And it was obvious to me that breathing can transmit the virus via droplets. It's just less likely.
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  #4760  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:29 PM
Actuary321 Actuary321 is offline
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Originally Posted by ditkaworshipper View Post
These “so-called experts” have been clear that masks slow the spread, but the lack of PPE for medical workers meant individuals outside of the medical field buying up all the masks was bad for our overall response. Your framework here is extremely incorrect to the point of being a blatant lie because of this exculpatory evidence.

So, please trust experts and not conspiracies.
Here is an article from the first week of March. Pretty actively discouraging any type of mask wearing.

https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/

Spoiler:
As the new coronavirus COVID-19 spreads in the U.S., people who are well want to stay that way. But since no vaccines are currently available, the strongest weapons Americans have are basic preventive measures like hand-washing and sanitizing surfaces, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

The simplicity of those recommendations is likely unsettling to people anxious to do more to protect themselves, so it’s no surprise that face masks are in short supply—despite the CDC specifically not recommending them for healthy people trying to protect against COVID-19. “It seems kind of intuitively obvious that if you put something—whether it’s a scarf or a mask—in front of your nose and mouth, that will filter out some of these viruses that are floating around out there,” says Dr. William Schaffner, professor of medicine in the division of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University. The only problem: that’s not effective against respiratory illnesses like the flu and COVID-19. If it were, “the CDC would have recommended it years ago,” he says. “It doesn’t, because it makes science-based recommendations.”

The science, according to the CDC, says that surgical masks won’t stop the wearer from inhaling small airborne particles, which can cause infection. Nor do these masks form a snug seal around the face. The CDC recommends surgical masks only for people who already show symptoms of coronavirus and must go outside, since wearing a mask can help prevent spreading the virus by protecting others nearby when you cough or sneeze. The agency also recommends these masks for caregivers of people infected with the virus.

The CDC also does not recommend N95 respirators—the tight-fitting masks designed to filter out 95% of particles from the air that you breathe—for use, except for health care workers. Doctors and health experts keep spreading the word. “Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!” tweeted Dr. Jerome Adams, the U.S. Surgeon General, on Feb. 29. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” In an interview with Fox & Friends, Adams said that wearing a mask can even increase your risk of getting the virus. “Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus.”


And one from last Tuesday. Not directly going against prior advice but the tune is very different.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/31/healt...ate/index.html

Spoiler:
(CNN)It's the debate heard 'round the world: Should you or shouldn't you wear a face mask during the coronavirus pandemic?

That's something White House and US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials are discussing, according to Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert.

While the World Health Organization on Monday stood by its recommendation only to wear a mask if you are sick or caring for someone who is sick, a growing number of officials and health experts argue that people should wear masks to help prevent spread of the virus.

"We are not going to be wearing masks forever, but it could be for a short period of time after we get back into gear. I could see something like that happening for a period of time," President Trump said during Monday's White House briefing.

The idea of recommending broad use of masks in the United States is under "very active discussion" at the White House, said Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, adding that the White House Task Force will be discussing it Tuesday.

Speaking to CNN's Jim Sciutto, Fauci said on CNN Newsroom that "the idea of getting a much more broad communitywide use of masks outside of the health care setting is under very active discussion at the Task Force. The CDC group is looking at that very carefully."

"The thing that has inhibited that a bit is to make sure we don't take away the supply of masks from the health care workers who need them," Fauci added. "But when we get in a situation where we have enough masks, I believe there will be some very serious consideration about more broadening this recommendation of using masks. We're not there yet, but I think we're close to coming to some determination.

"Because if, in fact, a person who may or may not be infected wants to prevent infecting somebody else, the best way to do that is with a mask. Perhaps that's the way to go."

Fauci warned, "You don't want to take masks away from the health care providers who are in a real and present danger of getting infected. That would be the worst thing we do. If we have them covered, then you could look back and say maybe we need to broaden this."

Meanwhile, many health experts already have turned to social media to make the argument for the public to wear masks, signaling a shift in some medical opinions around the topic.

Different types of masks under debate

In this debate, there are different types of masks in question: N95 respirator masks, surgical masks and cloth masks, which could be homemade.

"The N95 masks that we wear in health care should not be worn by the general public," Dr. James Phillips, CNN medical analyst and assistant professor of emergency medicine at George Washington University, said during an appearance on New Day on Tuesday morning.

"There's not any great proof that that's going to make a big difference. Those are used to prevent getting the disease from health care workers that are in close proximity to patients with it," Phillips said.

He added that surgical masks or cloth masks are different.

"Those are designed to keep the droplets that may be infected from coming out of your own mouth and nose on to other people, thus, spreading the disease. It makes logical sense that if everyone, including those who may be spreading the virus, was wearing that mask as sort of a shield over their face to prevent droplets from getting out into the air, that it would limit the transmission of the virus," Philips said on New Day.

"Now, cloth masks are not recommended to try to prevent you from getting disease, that's been shown to not work -- that's why we don't wear cloth masks in the hospital," he said. "I think the CDC and the federal government will end up coming out with a recommendation for people to wear masks, specifically to prevent droplet spread. I think that's coming."

Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration, wrote in a Twitter post on Sunday that a recommendation from the CDC "for consumers to wear cotton masks (with guidelines on how to fashion these products from household items) can improve safety and reduce spread and not strain the hospital supply chain."

Also on Twitter, Tom Inglesby, director of Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, wrote in a thread on Sunday that "members of the general public should wear non-medical fabric masks when going out in public in one
additional societal effort to slow the spread of the virus down."

The countries where masks are mandatory

Austria, the Czech Republic and Slovakia have all made face coverings in public mandatory. Many Czechs are even sewing their own masks as the world experiences a shortage.

Authorities in the German town of Jena on Tuesday said it planned to make wearing a mask mandatory in shops and on public transport, as well as other public places. Even a personal scarf or cloth over the face will do.

Meanwhile, in China, where the pandemic began, the Chinese CDC has recommended to "wear a mask when going out."

WHO and US CDC experts have long argued that people who are not sick nor caring for someone who is sick should leave masks in the medical supply chain for health care workers who need them most.

"What the World Health Organization and the CDC have reaffirmed in the last few days is that they do not recommend the general public wear masks.
Here's why: On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students -- and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times," US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams said during an appearance on Fox & Friends on Tuesday. That small behavioral observation study, published in the American Journal of Infection Control, was based on 26 medical students at the University of New South Wales.

"We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronaviruses is by touching a surface and then touching your face," Adams said. "So wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease."

The US CDC currently recommends that if you are not sick, "you do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick."

Some experts who have made the argument for people to wear masks have pointed to past research showing the effectiveness of masks against the spread of influenza and to early research on Covid-19.

A study published in the Journal of Hospital Infection in 2013 found that surgical masks could help reduce exposure to infectious influenza virus in the air. Preliminary data on how the virus shed from 13 Covid-19 patients at the University of Nebraska Medical Center supports "the use of airborne isolation precautions," such as masks. That early data currently is not published in a peer-reviewed journal.

A global shortage

As the debate continues around whether the public should wear masks, the world faces a serious shortage of medical supplies for doctors.
WHO officials warned during a media briefing in Geneva last week that there is a "significant shortage" of medical supplies globally, including personal protective gear or PPE.

"We need to be clear: The world is facing a significant shortage of PPE for our frontline workers -- including masks and gloves and gowns and face shields -- and protecting our health care workers must be the top priority for use of this PPE," Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, WHO infectious disease epidemiologist, said during the briefing.

All elements of the supply chain for supplies appear to be under "extreme strain," said Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO executive director of health emergencies programme.

"There are problems in the supply chain all along that chain. The simple issue is demand," he said. "There are shortages of PPE, shortages of ventilators and other products for the medical response to Covid. We also have to avoid shortages in other medical supplies, as supply chains come under strain."
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